Longevity In Ministry: A Conversation With Steve Nicholson

The Vineyard always wants to be about helping people have longevity in ministry. Right off the top, what are the pitfalls? What keeps people from “making it” within their calling in the long term, particularly full-time paid pastors?

Steve Nicholson: Well, I think the first thing is, people don’t make it because they have some kind of moral failure. The sad part is that I think in most cases it’s preventable by simply restricting your behaviors so that you don’t get tempted or caught in a web. Billy Graham’s rules for behavior are very helpful. For me and my staff, it’s been a function of explicit rules. Don’t get rides from an unrelated person of the opposite sex and only meet with unrelated people of the opposite sex in your office.

I’m sure you’ve heard this objection: “There’s such a vast majority of male pastors in the Vineyard, and by restricting their ability to mentor women, that holds women back from their full potential in ministry.”

To be blunt, I just don’t believe that private lunches and rides are necessary for mentoring. In recent years, I’ve probably been mentoring more women than men. What makes people ultimately succeed is having the opportunity to do things, to try things, to preach, to lead.

I should also say that in terms of moral failure, sex doesn’t have to be the culprit. It could be financial mismanagement, addiction, or something like that.

What else prevents folks from making it long-term in ministry?

I think some people don’t make it because they blow up their churches. This usually happens for two related reasons. One is that they can blow their church up because they follow too many fads, which doesn’t work out well for a stable church life. Back in the Toronto days, there were churches that shut down all “normal” church activities and had nothing but renewal meetings. All revival, all the time. None of those churches survived, except maybe the original one.

Or if not a fad, a church might go off on some tangent or follow some extreme. And they’ll lose people. Then they’ll swing the pendulum back the other way, and they’ll lose people on the other end. After a few swings like that, you’ve got no one left.

Sometimes pastors blow their churches up because they frankly just have too many fights with people. You kind of have a quota on how many fights you’re allowed to have. Fights can happen over power questions, but most of the time it’s money questions or accountability issues.

At some point, if you have too many fights, you lose credibility. If you lose credibility, you’re done. It’s over. You can’t function. Credibility is everything in this pastoring job. It’s what makes the whole deal work.

Could you speak to personal betrayals? Particularly that feeling of being betrayed enough times, and then you just feel lonely. How do you work through that?

[bctt tweet=”The first thing you have to remember is that pastor’s are not a people keepers.” quote=”The first thing you have to remember is that you’re not a people keeper. You get people for a while, and then most of the time they move on. You have to understand that that’s what you’re buying into here.”]

And it’s not a betrayal when people move on. When the kids graduate from high school, it’s not a betrayal when they stop coming. We perhaps need to change our expectations a little bit. We have to remember that most of our people are followers, and they’re just not going to think about your church the way you think about it or have the same level of commitment. This is your baby. You’re leading it. You’re at the top. You started it. Nobody else will have that same level of buy-in. Maybe a few, but they’ll be the exceptions, not the rule.

And one other pitfall: I think some pastors quit because they’re bored. It’s just that simple. Although I’d be careful. Being bored in this job either means you’re not listening to the Holy Spirit very well or you’re blind to the needs of your community. You can’t be bored.

And some quit because they think they’re failing. If you feel like you’re failing indefinitely, you’ll quit. Not just having bad days, but continually failing.

So if someone finds themselves in those situations … a moment of crisis, or a situation of moral compromise where a decision must be made, or the feeling of betrayal or boredom or failure … what are some things to keep in mind?

Number one: Start calling people, and tell them the truth.

This is a hard job. It’s not easy for any of us. We’re all sympathetic. But what generally happens is, people get to the ledge and then they isolate. Once you isolate yourself, there’s no remedy. It just won’t work. If you’re struggling before you get to the ledge, you should be on the phone calling people.

There are a lot of great people in the Vineyard that will come and visit and pray for you and encourage you and give you ideas to help you out. Just say something. Find someone. You don’t have to get to them, either. The phones work.

What are some of the positive, proactive things people can build into their lives and ministries and relationships to have longevity?

Take care of yourself first. Take care of your own spiritual life, your emotional life, your family life, above all.

Number two, you really have to get past the “messiah complex.” You need to have a little bit of a distancing mechanism where you remind yourself that this is what you’re called to do and all these problems are still other people’s problems to ultimately deal with. They’re not all your problems. Your job is to pray for them and teach them what the Bible says. And if they’re open to it, share what wisdom you have. But then you’re done. You can’t own their problems. Otherwise, you end up living in constant crises all the time, and nobody can do that.

So first, take care of yourself. And second, have good boundaries.

Third, play to your gifts. Over the long haul, over the course of a year, you should be spending about 60-70 percent of the time in the things that you are good at and that you enjoy. You should be bringing other people with other gifts in to take care of the gaps.

To add a little piece to newer pastors in particular: If you have some mentors that you admire a lot, remember that your gifts are different than theirs.

And have some friends.

Rocket Science!

I know, right? Have some friends. But for pastors, that can of course be complicated. It’s tough for pastors to have friends.

Find some friends. They may not be in your church, but that’s all right. Have a hobby, something you do that’s not work. With friends.

And take your days off. Don’t cheat! Take long vacations. Don’t cheat! Every six or seven years, have a sabbatical. A real one.

Those last few: “Take days off. Take your vacations. Go on sabbatical.” Can you balance that with the idea, “If you’re going to make it ministry you have to work really hard”? How do we teach both? I feel like the wrong people listen to the wrong part of the message a lot of the time.

That’s just it, isn’t it? I’d say, “Work hard, and then take a day off.”

How do you cope with the strange reality of having your own relationship with God when you’re a pastor and every day is more or less about God already? How do you make the distinction when you get your money by doing stuff that’s about him all day, every day?

Make a separate time to get away and pray for yourself first. It’s maybe helpful to take retreats now and then, personal retreats, and just pray and think about yourself and don’t be doing church planning. This is possible if you have a different set time to do church planning.

If you plan well, you’ll have the time for yourself and emotional space for yourself. If you have set blocks to do each thing, then you’ll feel less pressure. You know it’s on your calendar. There are lots of good resources out there for time management.

The last thing I can say in order to stay in this for a long time is, build a good team around you. It’s a lot easier to go a long time if you like the people you’re working with.

Where do you fall in terms of the contrast between hiring somebody that you like versus hiring somebody that’s gifted in a certain area? Say they’re gifted but you don’t really like them.

Both things are necessary. You need someone you like who is gifted. You need to keep looking until you find someone who is both. You need to like them, and if they’re gifted and can do their job well, you’ll keep liking them.

What’s the key to building a good team?

Number one: Pray. That’s one of the things you really do need to do! Pray for your existing team and that you’ll find the right people too.

Number two: Choose people that have different gifts but the same vision and the same values. And choose people whose gifts are a different mix than yours. If they have the same gifts as you, you’ll end up stepping on somebody’s toes, and eventually one of you will have to leave.

One last thing: Talk to older pastors. We’ve been there. We can sometimes help avoid disasters … or at least minimize them.